2019.03.08 04:36 plzstoporiwilldie Richmond Hill Ga
2013.11.01 16:57 randoh12 A fan based sub dedicated to Arkansas Razorbacks sports.
2023.06.02 05:04 TheRarPar Looking for a bike to use in the city that is fun to ride and reliable, never purchased a bike before
2023.06.02 03:45 smukadam Any fulltime or part time mechanics/auto techs?
2023.06.02 03:30 Dont_dreamits_over Crazy repair costs
2023.06.02 03:23 SecurityInTheWin Stripped studs and three lugnuts discount tire referred me to two auto repair shops
2023.06.02 03:10 Pepper2Moss Mix of cards- MLB Showdown, 90s/00s rookies, jerseys, inserts
![]() | Have the following cards available for sale or trade. All cards mint/near mint unless noted. Prices include shipping in the US. All negotiable. Did my best trying to find sold comps on eBay, but if anything looks off, let me know. submitted by Pepper2Moss to sportscardsforsale [link] [comments] MLB Showdown lot- $100, 2000 1st Ed Griffey, 2001 Pedro, Nomar, Ichiro rookie, 2003 Ichiro 1997-98 Bowman’s Best Mirror Image refractor Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Shawn Kemp, Marcus Camby - $30 2007 Donruss Threads Philip Rivers, LaDanian Tomlinson, Antonio Gates jersey card # 008/250 - $25 2001 SPX Chipper Jones jersey/bat card - $10 2001 Topps Ichiro rookie - $10, edges showing some wear All of the following $5: Chris Webber finest rookie Paul Pierce finest rookie Michael Jordan UNC finest Steve Francis game floofilm Greg Maddux donruss rookie Vlad Guerrero game jersey Chris Johnson game Jersey CJ Spiller auto All of the following free with any other purchase: Yao Ming topps rookie Clinton Portis exclusive rookie Austin Kearns stadium club rookie I collect the following if interested in a trade: Casual collector of Grant Hill, Ken Griffey Jr and Randy Moss (will look at other Vikings players as well), 96-99 b-ball autographics Magic the Gathering Hobby board games Uncanny X-Men comics (Claremont era) Disney Funko pops |
2023.06.02 02:47 kauan1983 The conspiracy lore and the dynamic between the government agencies in Stranger Things
![]() | Something that i am extremely fascinated about in Stranger Things is the government conspiracy angle of the series, and over the seasons, i felt that the writing started to give us less details about how the government agencies work in this universe. Also, many details of the lore are still unresolved, and i fear some of them might not be resolved in S5, so I decided to make an analysis of everything that involves the government in the show to create my own version of the timeline of the events involving the U.S. government, and gather information to hypothesize events that may have happened offscreen, the occupations of some characters within the government and what agencies are involved with everything that has happened in the show since S1. I hope you guys enjoy the read! submitted by kauan1983 to StrangerThings [link] [comments] PROJECT MKULTRA - In 1953, The MKUltra program was officially sanctioned by the CIA, a multimillion-dollar initiative intended to develop mind control techniques. The experiments would be conducted in many hospitals, prisons and colleges across the U.S. Hawkins National Laboratory was one of many facilities in the U.S. where MKUltra was being conducted - Dr. Martin Brenner was the director of CIA operations at this laboratory. - MKUltra is a real CIA-sanctioned research that was officially halted in 1973. And it was the basis for a science-based horror in the show's lore. But the Duffers never wanted to really dive into it, as the story they wanted to tell was mainly inspired by the Montauk Project and would focus in children with super powers and other dimensions. There is a little talk about it in the official behind the scenes companion Worlds Turned Upside Down: I wouldn't say we had done necessarily a deep dive into it. It was more a surface glance of seeing what they were up to and then using it as an excuse to have science-based horror in our narrative. — Ross Duffer- The presence of the MKUltra in the lore is what canonically establishes the CIA as the bad men we see in S1 and briefly in S2. The agency is only mentioned once in the show when Hopper and Powell are investigating documents about the HNL/MKUltra, but we can confirm that the CIA was also responsible for funding Brenner's program as in the Worlds Turned Upside Down book we can see government cards with a "Central Intelligence Agency Clandestine Ops" badge in it. PROJECT INDIGO - Doctor Brenner's program. It's the main government project of Stranger Things, and although never mentioned in the show, the name of the program was supposed to be "INDIGO" which was also the proposed name of the show as stated by the Duffers in their MasterClass: So we just came up with a bunch of ideas. We had The Keep, we had INDIGO which was gonna be the name of the government program, and amidst that we had Stranger Things. — Ross DufferIt's unclear if the Duffers kept the name as it was never mentioned in the show, but the name is mentioned in the Suspicious Minds book, which was supervised by one of the show's writers - Paul Dichter. Project Indigo is basically the Hawkins equivalent of the Montauk Project. While the MKUltra was the Duffers' basis for a science-based horror in the lore, INDIGO is where the most crazy, cutting-edge developments in science come in. The Duffers had the desire to play with the "sandbox" of elements that the Montauk conspiracy could offer. In the conspiracy, there were talks about children with psychic/psionic powers (which became the Numbers 001 to 018), other dimensions (like the Upside Down, Dimension X and the Hellscape), alien contact, monsters being unleashed (Demogorgon/DX entities) and even time travel, which is something that was originally part of the ST mythology as we can see in the document below: The Montauk Pitch by the Duffer Brothers THE PROGRAM STARTS - As we learned in S4, the beginning of the program happens in 1959, and is a result of Dr. Brenner discovering a boy with extraordinary psychic abilities, Henry, after his mother contacts him in the hopes of sending him to a facility where he would be locked away and fixed. Henry, knowing what his mother was planning, decided to kill his whole family, but would eventually fall into a coma due to not knowing his limits while using his psychic powers. - Brenner knew what the boy did and also what he was capable of, and wanted to not just study but also control him. After the Creel House murders, Brenner would take Henry to the lab and the CIA would cover up anything that could compromise their operation. Victor Creel, the only survivor of the events in the house was declared legally insane, the records of what Victor claimed to have occurred in his house were sealed. - Brenner eventually sold to the CIA a separate program that he planned to start, a program that would study Henry Creel who was presented to the government as a potential weapon against the Soviets as stated by Matt Duffer in this interview by Deadline. He knew what this kid did and also what he was capable of when he was young. Brenner’s going, how can I mold this character, but not just into a weapon? That’s really how he sold it to the government, but for him as a scientist, it’s like, what other worlds can this kid show me about how our universe works? — Matt Duffer- As a scientist, Brenner had the desire to not only mold Henry into a weapon but also use him as a means to reach other worlds/dimensions and understand how the universe works. That makes me think that, at the time, Brenner expected Henry to be able to do what he would later discover only Eleven could do, which was the capablity of opening a rift or tear in time-space via psychic energy. - At some point, I would guess in late 1959 - early 1960s, an unknown event led Brenner to pacify Henry's abilities via Soteria. After that, Brenner would decide to evolve his program, replicating Henry's powers in other kids. This is something Matt Duffer confirmed that S5 will explore, It’s something we will get into in Season 5. What happened to that program once Henry became involved and how Brenner evolved it into including multiple kids. We’re going to go back and see some of that in Season 5.How Brenner tried to replicate Henry's abilities is unclear, but there's something mentioned in the Montauk bible that caught my attention and could be a brief explanation of how these preternatural abilities arise in some individuals: ELEVEN was an orphan with telekinesis. her preternatural abilities have been linked to mutations caused by her mothers drug use.In this version of the Eleven's backstory, the Duffers had not yet conceived El's mother being Terry Ives, the MKUltra involvement in the lore, and El's abilities being the result of experiments on her mother. Instead, we have genetic mutations caused by drug use. If there's any chance this is an explanation to how some individuals are born with psychic abilities, i suspect that Brenner knew that drugs had the potential to cause such mutations and that via experiments and training, he would unlock these supernatural psychic abilities. Knowing that, Brenner would use the MKUltra (which mainly involved psychedelic drugs) as a means to new supernatural kids to be born, just like it happened to Eleven. Virginia Creel's backstory In episode 7, Henry mentions that his parents did "such awful things." and that he "held up a mirror" to show them who they really were, but we never got to see what Henry used against his mother. Whatever awful thing she did, is still a mystery in the show. Also, Virginia somehow knew that Henry had supernatural abilities, so i think it's plausible to assume that, perhaps, Virginia knew it because of something dark in her past, something she believed resulted in her son being born with supernatural abilities and becoming a "broken" kid. The drug element that i mentioned before could also play a role in the origin of Henry's powers and whatever these dark memories of Virginia are. In S4E7 script, we can see that the whole part where Virginia suspects Henry is the responsible for the strange happenings in the house and contacts Brenner to lock her son away is missing. Meaning the writers later decided to add more layers to this backstory that may be explored in S5. The Duffer Brothers have confirmed in interviews that S5 will explore more of Henry's prequel story, and it was recently revealed in an article from BBC that the 'The First Shadow' stage play influences S5, so i'm hoping this means we'll see more of the Creels, specially Virginia. They were able to adjust some of the "things in the play" and said that working on it had given them ideas for the upcoming season five.1960's - THE PROGRAM EVOLVES - The evolution of Brenner's program logically took place during the 1960s, and some of that was already hinted in S2 when we discover that Terry had documents about people she believed were like her daughter. In some of those documents we get to see that Kali was abducted in London, a Cleveland teen girl who was seemingly abducted in Indiana, and a newborn boy was taken from a hospital. The baby was in the care of a nurse who was found dead in her home. - in 1969, Ray Carroll started working at HNL as an orderly. 1970's - At some point in the early 70's, Terry Ives got involved with MKUltra. (In the Suspicious Minds book, we learn that Terry was involved with MKUltra in 1969 but i'm not considering any information from the book due to the huge amount of inconsistencies.) - After Brenner kidnapped Eleven in 1971, the BreneHNL would face charges and lawsuits from Terry Ives but they were denied due to lack of evidence. - In 1973, the MKUltra was officially halted. - In 1974, Terry would try to take Eleven from the laboratory. Brenner ordered Terry to undergo an eletroshock therapy, ordering Ray Carroll to set the voltage up to 450 and then proceeded to electrocute her until her brain was damaged. - In 1979, One succeeded in having El "free" him by removing the Soteria from him. Regaining his psychic abilities, Henry kills all the Indigo numbers except for Eleven who would eventually banish him out of our dimension. After the attack, El falls into a coma, and Brenner doesn't dare bring another number to the lab. Instead, Brenner focuses the experiments on Eleven, who has repressed not only her memories of the past events but also her powers after waking up from her coma. Brenner knew that Eleven's abilities weren't lost but needed a "spark" to be restored. 1983 - Brenner believed that One was somewhere out there, "hiding in the darkness", and in 1983, after Eleven's powers were restored, Brenner would eventually use her abilities to find him. - In one experiment, El hears a strange sound that would get Brenner's attention. Despite El getting scared and the experiment being aborted, Brenner would repeat the experiment with the intention of making "contact". - On the night of november 6, 1983, El makes psychic contact with the Demogorgon in the Void, inadvertentely creating TUD, opening the mothergate and unleashing the monster. She eventually escaped the HNL that night. - On the next day, Brenner and the CIA receive a visit from agents that according to the S1E1 script were NSA. CIA and NSA agents would eventually work together to find Eleven and cover up anything that would compromise the secrecy of their clandestine operation. - Brenner and his team of agents along with MPs would go to the Hawkins Middle School in order to find Eleven after Hopper revealed her location. For their surprise, the Demogorgon appears in the school, distracting the agents and MPs, allowing the kids to run away from the CIA with Eleven. Brenner is brutally attacked by the Demogorgon, but survives the attack. - After the events in the school, we see hopper entering a black sedan with CIA agents. - CIA agents go to the Wheelers House searching for Eleven. This is the last time we see Brenner's men in the show. In the next season, the HNL would have a new director and a new staff. - In a clipping at Hawkins Police Station, there's information on the aftermath of the events in november, 1983, where we learn that Joyce Byers publicy alleged that Will was the subject of a secret government program. Joyce's allegation comes amidst the investigation into the past allegations of the lab's involvement with mind control experiments (MKUltra). - As to where Brenner and his entire staff were after the events in november, it is unknown, but i suspect Owens knew about what happened to them as in S2 he seems to be certain that Brenner's men were gone. The point is, mistakes have been made. Yes. Abundant mistakes, but, the men involved with those mistakes, the ones responsible for what happened to your brother and Miss Holland's death, they're gone. They're gone, and for better for worse, i'm the schmuck they brought in to make things better. — Sam OwensI've come to suspect that after the events of November '83, when the entire HNL staff was replaced, everything documented/recorded about the CIA's clandestine operations was securely locked away by CIA or DOE operatives, likely in the decommissioned Nevada Silo. (One alternate possibility is that those documents and recordings were stored in the Silo after the HNL was closed in december, 1984) Something that I find interesting is that both the Silo Lab and Owens' residence are located in Nevada, and in S4E5, when Eleven is taken to the Silo, originally the titles "Ruth, Nevada" appeared on the screen, that was later removed, but it implies that both the Silo and Owens' residence were close. This leads me to suspect that long before Owens and Brenner conceived of the NINA program, Owens already knew about the abandoned Silo in Nevada and decided to used it to store every TOP-SECRET documents/recordings of the CIA operations at HNL. https://preview.redd.it/qjidk3560i3b1.png?width=1334&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=287916d61b1b71b59d7b8c7ed3a7355f2b073f44 One interesting detail is that the idea of the government securely locking away videotapes is something the Duffers planned for their original Montauk conception, which most of it was a prototype for what we've seen in Stranger Things. In The Montauk Experiment, the O.S.S. would securely lock away film cannisters with recordings of everything that happened in Camp Hero after the experiments ended in a blood-soaked event. Details in the document below: The logline for 'The Montauk Experiment' DOCTOR SAM OWENS' POSITION IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT - Sam Owens is a high-ranking member within U.S. Department of Energy as mentioned in the first official description of his character. Sometime between late 1983 - early 1984 he would be brought to HNL on a ‘clean-up’ assignment, tasked with containing the mess left by the CIA in 1983 and making things better. - As I previously mentioned, Owens may have been responsible for locking away all the documented CIA experimentation at HNL, and he also may have known the whereabouts of Brenner and other scientists and CIA operatives who worked with him all along. I would even assume that Owens and Brenner may have been in contact all this time. - During his time as director of the operations at HNL, Owens was involved in Will's treatment and in containing the spread of TUD. - In November 1984, during the Demodogs invasion, Owens met Eleven, who eventually closed the gate, ending TUD invasion. - A month later, the operations at HNL were officially shut down and the lab was closed after the release of the tape recording Owens' "confession", and Owens decided to help Eleven have a normal life under Hopper's care, giving him a forged birth certificate, and recommending Hopper to "let things cool off" for a year. This, of course, was done without the knowledge of the U.S. government. FACTONS WITHIN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT After the events os S2, in addition to the CIA Clandestine Ops and the DOE, other different agencies were introduced in the story: - US Army/Pentagon that briefly appears at the end of s3 (although we've seen the Military Police in the previous seasons which is a branch of the Army), and would be an antagonist faction in S4. - FBI agents who are presented as friends of Owens and allied to our main characters in S4. SULLIVAN'S FACTION - At some point after the HNL was closed, Doctor Owens, in addition to his high-ranking position in the DOE, also gained some position within the U.S. Army/Pentagon, probably tasked with monitoring and maintaining security in Hawkins after the lab was closed and the military presence left town. Lieutenant Colonel Jack Sullivan was involved in this, and it's possible he and Owens worked together. - An interesting detail is that the arm patch on Lt. Colonel Sullivan's uniform confirms that he's an United States Army Criminal Investigation Division operative, hence his associaton with the Pentagon. - At some point (i assume 1985), rumors about Eleven being alive and receiving help from someone within the U.S. government began to surface within the Pentagon, this would affect Owens' reputation. - It's also worth mentioning that in S4E6, Sullivan seems to imply that he knew or at least believed Brenner was alive. Explanation two, Dr. Brenner's special little pet has gone rogue again and he and his lackeys are now seeking to cover it up. Perhaps in the hopes of selling their pet to the Soviets. — Lt. Colonel SullivanThere's also this interview with Sherman Augustus where the interviewer asks him if Sullivan knows that Brenner is still alive, and Sherman's answer implies that Brenner being alive is something that wouldn't surprise Sullivan, Maybe because it was rumored within the Pentagon too. Basically, there's nothing that Sullivan doesn't know or expect about what's been happening in Hawkins and within the government since the events of S1. I'm pretty sure he knows that there's certain elements... because he says in the dialogue "there's rumors that she's getting help from someone on the inside". So there is nothing that he is not, you know, equating in that situation, he's not surprised. Whatever it is, you have to be a really strong and dynamic individual to be able to go in and try to kick E.T in the butt. — Sherman Augustus- In July 1985, Owens would find out about a foreign government invasion in Hawkins, and would go to Hawkins with Army/Pentagon forces to deal with the invasion, only to find an empty Soviet bunker. OWENS' FACTION - After the events in July, Owens got fired from his position in the miitary for failing his assignment to monitor security at Hawkins, i believe the previously mentioned rumors about him may also have played a role in his dismissal. - Owens, knowing that El had lost her powers, feared a further re-emergence of the TUD, which led him to begin developing a means to restore her abilities and bring them back stronger than before. - Owens would ally with Brenner to develop a way to restore Eleven's abilities, and Brenner convinced Owens that the only way to do so was via a process of re-experiencing her repressed memories in a program that they would later call NINA. It's unclear when Brenner and Owens' alliance started, but i personally believe they knew each other for longer than we initially thought, and shortly after the July events, Owens' looked for Brenner's help in order to develop a means to restore El's powers. - Despite being fired from his position in the military, Owens was still a DOE member and also had connections to the FBI (Ellen Stinson and other agents), and he used his power to clandestinely provide Brenner with the necessary resources to establish the NINA Project. For the program to be sanctioned, he had to compromise his principles, and risk his life and that of his family. Something worth noting is that in the episode 7 script, the dialogue where Owens expresses his disappointment with NINA's progress is a little different: I've given you all the resources you've asked for, i've given you your people, i've compromised my principles, i've risked my life, my family's life, all because you assured me this would work. That this was the only way. — Sam OwensBy "i've given you your people" we can confirm that Owens gave to Brenner his old HNL staff, who as we saw in S4E8, were loyal to him. And we can also confirm by Sam's words that he had to give Brenner resources, meaning, wherever Brenner was after the events oF S1, he was left with no resources and access to his old staff. - Owens and Brenner would establish NINA in the same abandoned Silo in Nevada where Owens presumably locked away all the video tapes and documents from HNL. THE FACTION CONFLICT - After Owens' dismissal, Sullivan apparently became the responsible for monitoring Hawkins and maintaining the security in the town. - In March 1986, a supernatural murder in Hawkins comes to Sullivan's attention, and after an autopsy is performed by Army medical doctors, Sullivan concludes that the murder was done remotely, which tied in with the rumors about Eleven being alive and getting help from someone within the U.S. government who he, and probably other operatives within the Pentagon believed was Sam Owens. - Upon that conclusion, Sullivan would begin a clandestine military operation in order to investigate Eleven's whereabouts, and this leads him to Owens. - Something worth noting is that when we are first introduced to Sullivan, he arrives in Indiana in an U.S. Army helicopter to investigate the circumstances of an unusual murder, but when he begins his operation to hunt down Eleven, he goes to Ruth, Nevada in an unmarked black helicopter, alluding to the fact that this is a clandestine military operation: Sullivan arrives in Indiana Sullivan leaves Owens' residence in Nevada Something interesting about the scene where Sullivan visits Owens that adds some information on what the U.S. government has been up to is the dialogue between Sullivan and Owens from this audition tape which is a bit different from the dialogue from the show: There were no signs of an attacker. No bruises, no signs of any struggle. It's as if her attacker was a ghost. — Lt. Colonel SullivanSo what is this, really? I mean, why are you here? all of the sudden you want to help again? — Sam OwensDr. Owens, 30 civilians died last year, a foreign government our country all under your watch. There had to be consequences, you've got to understand that — Lt. Colonel SullivanOwens' question implies that Sullivan has been helping him at some point, probably in monitoring Hawkins like a mentioned before, which would explain how he knew so much about what has happened there all this years. And Sullivan's response implies that after Owens got fired, it became his responsability to maintain security in Hawkins, which is why he was there, asking Owens Eleven's whereabouts. - Owens refuses to tell Sullivan Eleven's whereabouts, and Jack decides to do things "the hard way", taking multiple items from Owens' house in order to investigate everything Sam has done and everyone he has spoken to in 1985 and luckily, be able to find where Eleven is. - Owens knew that the former Indigo test subject One was back when he saw pictures of Chrissy's body, and via a DOE intranet, he requests the immediate acceleration of NINA. He makes it clear that their secret program and facility were compromised and that the Pentagon was involved. And for the security of their program, Owens implements a communication lockdown. - Owens uses his FBI connections to have agents help him find Eleven, maintain the secrecy of the operation and protect people closely associated with Eleven who could be found by Sullivan. Some of those agents are Ellen Stinson, who seems to be Owens' right hand, Agent Harmon, and Agent Wallace. - In the meantime, Sullivan/the Pentagon was able to find out that Owens moved Eleven to Lenora Hills, CA, and would eventually send a group of agents/soldiers to find her. - After finding Eleven with a group of agents and convicing her to go with him in order to get her powers back, Owens takes El to the Silo Lab while Agents Harmon and Wallace would stay with Mike, Jonathan and Will to protect them, and Agent Stinson would be closely monitoring Hawkins with 2 more agents. - Sullivan, after a shootout in the Byers' house takes Agent Wallace to a black site to torture him in order to find out where Eleven was, and after a long time of torture, Wallace gave away Eleven's location. - After NINA succeeded in restoring Eleven's abilities, Owens, believing she was ready, would call Stinson to have her prepare the transit from Nevada to Hawkins, Indiana through her connections at Nellis. - Brenner would eventually betray Owens and considered killing him in order to stop Eleven from leaving the Silo Lab. After the conflict between Owens and Brenner, the Pentagon finally arrives at the location revealed by Agent Wallace and a conflict between the U.S army and the MP soldiers resulted in the death of Brenner, his men and all the scientists in the Silo Lab, except Owens. - Eleven escapes the Pentagon with her friends, and we see Sullivan and some of his soldiers for the last time in S4, in the Nevada desert. Episodes 8 and 9 made it clear that El still needs to hide and Sullivan's faction is still after her. It's worth mentioning that Sullivan was the only villain in ST4 not to be killed or at least injured, so it's almost certain that this guy will be back in ST5 to kick E.T's ass. Specially know that a full-scale TUD invasion is about the happen in Hawkins. POSSIBILITIES FOR S5: Sullivan investigates the video tapes in the silo lab S4 ended without us knowing what happened to Owens and Sullivan after eleven escaped, but we do know that both characters are in the Silo Lab and that Sullivan now has access to a vast amount of video tapes that he would certainly investigate and this would create many possibilities for the Pentagon's role in S5. Sullivan's Mission in Hawkins Sullivan is still responsible for monitoring Hawkins, and at some point he will probably learn about what is happening in the town (which is also where El is hiding now), possibly via the military presence in Hawkins that we saw in the ST4 epilogue. Something that caught my attention was the presence of a Research Lab vehicle on the set of downtown Hawkins, this vehicle never appeared in the show, and it was not mentioned in the script of episode 9. But it makes me think that at the end of S4, the Military is not just trying to help Hawkins citizen after this "federal disaster", but also researching into TUD, which perhaps is an operation led by Sullivan? let me know what you guys think. S1 parallels If we have Sullivan in Hawkins in S5, we most certainly will get more Government vs Eleven scenes, which would parallel Brenner and the CIA in S1. I particularly believe that S5 will have many parallels with what the Duffers planned for the first season of Montauk, ACT THREE (episodes 7-8) will climax with characters working together to outsmart the military, venture into this alternate dimension, save Will, and, hopefully, close this "tear" once and for all. Doctor Owens in 1959 flashbacks Something I found extremely suspicious is that in S4, Owens seemed to know more than we initially thought. He's claimed three victims so far, and when i saw the eyes, i knew... i knew that was him. He was him. He was sending us a message, letting us know he's back.This sentence from Owens confirms that he somehow knew Henry's killing manner. It's plausible to assume that Owens learned about Henry and the other Indigo Numbers after being brought to the lab to "make things better". But I personally believe that there must be a greater reason why he was brought to HNL after S1, I believe Owens was already aware of the clandestine operations that had been happening in the HNL for years (at least some of it) and had known Dr. Brenner since the 1950's. I would even consider the possibility that Owens has been involved in clandestine government operations in the past and that somehow led him to find out about the HNL and Brenner's program. In this interview by The Wrap, Ross Duffer's words about Brenner and Owens' alliance caught my attention because the way he puts it felt like Owens has known Brenner for longer than we think. Once that first kill with Chrissy happens, then their fears are realized and that’s what jump starts their whole storyline. I mean, that is why Owens is collaborating with Brenner, a man he also does not like. He respects him, but despises the man, because he also knows he’s the key to stopping One, to stopping Vecna.By my suspicion, i came up with the theory/fanfic that Owens could have worked with Brenner in the 50's and was aware of what happened in the Creel House in '59. Maybe he even met young Henry and interacted with him after he woke up from his coma. If there's any chance that i'm right about it, i would imagine the Owens and Henry interactions would parallel the scenes with Owens and Will in S2. Stinson becomes the new Owens / Her alliance with the adults Agent Stinson was apparently Owens' right hand in S4 and also the leader among the agents of Owens' faction, being involved in the operations in Nevada, Hawkins and even being responsible for driving Hopper and Joyce to Hawkins. Imo, Stinson has the potential to become the "new Owens"/Main government operative to help our main characters while Owens is MIA. She could also send some agents to investigate what happened to Owens. I have a personal theory that Stinson will join the adults in S5 and help them on a mission to outsmart the military. And i think the "knowing nod" between Hop and Stinson in S4E9 might be a hint of a possible team up for S5. |
2023.06.02 02:40 kauan1983 The conspiracy lore and the dynamic between the government agencies in Stranger Things
![]() | Something that i am extremely fascinated about in Stranger Things is the government conspiracy angle of the series, and over the seasons, i felt that the writing started to give us less details about how the government agencies work in this universe. Also, many details of the lore are still unresolved, and i fear some of them might not be resolved in S5, so I decided to make an analysis of everything that involves the government in the show to create my own version of the timeline of the events involving the U.S. government and gather information to hypothesize events that may have happened offscreen, the occupations of some characters within the government and what agencies are involved with everything that has happened in the show since S1. I hope you guys enjoy the read! submitted by kauan1983 to HawkinsAVclub [link] [comments] PROJECT MKULTRA - In 1953, The MKUltra program was officially sanctioned by the CIA, a multimillion-dollar initiative intended to develop mind control techniques. the experiments would be conducted in many hospitals, prisons and colleges across the US. Hawkins National Laboratory was one of many facilities in the U.S where MKUltra was being conducted - Dr. Martin Brenner was the director of CIA operations at this laboratory. - MKUltra is a real CIA-sanctioned research that was officially halted in 1973. And it was the basis for a science-based horror in the show's lore. But the Duffers never wanted to really dive into it, as the story they wanted to tell was mainly inspired by the Montauk Project and would focus in children with super powers and other dimensions. There is a little talk about it in the official behind the scenes companion Worlds Turned Upside Down: I wouldn't say we had done necessarily a deep dive into it. It was more a surface glance of seeing what they were up to and then using it as an excuse to have science-based horror in our narrative. — Ross Duffer- The presence of the MKUltra in the lore is what canonically establishes the CIA as the bad men we see in S1 and briefly in S2. The agency is only mentioned once in the show when Hopper and Powell are investigating documents about the HNL/MKUltra, but we can confirm that the CIA was also responsible for funding Brenner's program as in the Worlds Turned Upside Down book we can see government cards with a "Central Intelligence Agency Clandestine Ops" badge in it. PROJECT INDIGO - Doctor Brenner's program. It's the main government project of Stranger Things, and although never mentioned in the show, the name of the program was supposed to be "INDIGO" which was also the proposed name of the show as stated by the Duffers in their MasterClass: So we just came up with a bunch of ideas. We had The Keep, we had INDIGO which was gonna be the name of the government program, and amidst that we had Stranger Things. — Ross DufferIt's unclear if the Duffers kept the name as it was never mentioned in the show, but the name is mentioned in the Suspicious Minds book, which was supervised by one of the show's writers - Paul Dichter. Project Indigo is basically the Hawkins equivalent of the Montauk Project. While the MKUltra was the Duffers' basis for a science-based horror in the lore, INDIGO is where the most crazy, cutting-edge developments in science come in. The Duffers had the desire to play with the "sandbox" of elements that the Montauk conspiracy could offer. In the conspiracy, there were talks about children with psychic/psionic powers (which became the Numbers 001 to 018), other dimensions (like the Upside Down, Dimension X and the Hellscape), alien contact, monsters being unleashed (Demogorgon/DX entities) and even time travel, which is something that was originally part of the ST mythology as we can see in the document below: The Montauk pitch by the Duffer Brothers THE PROGRAM STARTS - As we learned in S4, the beginning of the program happens in 1959, and is a result of Dr. Brenner discovering a boy with extraordinary psychic abilities, Henry, after his mother contacts him in the hopes of sending him to a facility where he would be locked away and fixed. Henry, knowing what his mother was planning, decided to kill his whole family, but would eventually fall into a coma due to not knowing his limits while using his psychic powers. - Brenner knew what the boy did and also what he was capable of, and wanted to not just study but also control him. After the Creel House murders, Brenner would take Henry to the lab and the CIA would cover up anything that could compromise their operation. Victor Creel, the only survivor of the events in the house was declared legally insane, and the records of what Victor claimed to have occurred in his house were sealed. - Brenner eventually sold to the CIA a separate program that he planned to start, a program that would study Henry Creel who was presented to the government as a potential weapon against the Soviets as stated by Matt Duffer in this interview by Deadline. He knew what this kid did and also what he was capable of when he was young. Brenner’s going, how can I mold this character, but not just into a weapon? That’s really how he sold it to the government, but for him as a scientist, it’s like, what other worlds can this kid show me about how our universe works? — Matt Duffer- As a scientist, Brenner had the desire to not only mold Henry into a weapon but also use him as a means to reach other worlds/dimensions and understand how the universe works. That makes me think that, at the time, Brenner expected Henry to be able to do what he would later discover only Eleven could do, which was the capablity of opening a rift or tear in time-space via psychic energy.
It’s something we will get into in Season 5. What happened to that program once Henry became involved and how Brenner evolved it into including multiple kids. We’re going to go back and see some of that in Season 5. — Matt DufferHow Brenner tried to replicate Henry's abilities is unclear, but there's something mentioned in the Montauk bible that caught my attention and could be a brief explanation of how these preternatural abilities arise in some individuals: ELEVEN was an orphan with telekinesis. her preternatural abilities have been linked to mutations caused by her mothers drug use.In this version of the Eleven's backstory, the Duffers had not yet conceived El's mother being Terry Ives, the MKUltra involvement in the lore, and El's abilities being the result of experiments on her mother. Instead, we have genetic mutations caused by drug use. If there's any chance this is an explanation to how some individuals are born with psychic abilities, i suspect that Brenner knew that drugs had the potential to cause such mutations and that via experiments and training, he would unlock these supernatural psychic abilities. Knowing that, Brenner would use the MKUltra (which mainly involved psychedelic drugs) as a means to new supernatural kids to be born, just like it happened to Eleven. Virginia Creel's backstory In episode 7, Henry mentions that his parents did "such awful things." and that he "held up a mirror" to show them who they really were, but we never got to see what Henry used against his mother. Whatever awful thing she did, is still a mystery in the show. Also, Virginia somehow knew that Henry had supernatural abilities, so i think it's plausible to assume that, perhaps, Virginia knew it because of something dark in her past, something she believed resulted in her son being born with supernatural abilities and becoming a "broken" kid. The drug element that i mentioned before could also play a role in the origin of Henry's powers and whatever these dark memories of Virginia are. In S4E7 script, we can see that the whole part where Virginia suspects Henry is the responsible for the strange happenings in the house and contacts Brenner to lock her son away is missing. Meaning the writers later decided to add more layers to this backstory that may be explored in S5. The Duffer Brothers have confirmed in interviews that S5 will explore more of Henry's prequel story, and it was recently revealed in an article from BBC that the 'The First Shadow' stage play influences S5, so i'm hoping this means we'll see more of the Creels, specially Virginia. They were able to adjust some of the "things in the play" and said that working on it had given them ideas for the upcoming season five. 1960's - THE PROGRAM EVOLVES - The evolution of Brenner's program logically took place during the 1960s, and some of that was already hinted in S2 when we discover that Terry had documents about people she believed were like her daughter. In some of those documents we get to see that Kali was abducted in London, a Cleveland teen girl who was seemingly abducted in Indiana, and a newborn boy was taken from a hospital. The baby was in the care of a nurse who was found dead in her home. - in 1969, Ray Carroll started working at HNL as an orderly. 1970's - At some point in the early 70's, Terry Ives got involved with MKUltra. (In the Suspicious Minds book, we learn that Terry was involved with MKUltra in 1969 but i'm not considering any information from the book due to the huge amount of inconsistencies.) - After Brenner kidnapped Eleven in 1971, the HNL would face charges and lawsuits from Terry Ives but they were denied due to lack of evidence. - In 1973, the MKUltra was officially halted. - In 1974, Terry would try to take Eleven from the laboratory. Brenner ordered Terry to undergo an eletroshock therapy, ordering Ray Carroll to set the voltage up to 450 and then proceeded to electrocute her until her brain was damaged. - In 1979, One succeeded in having El "free" him by removing the Soteria from him. Regaining his psychic abilities, Henry kills all the Indigo numbers except for Eleven who would eventually banish him out of our dimension. After the attack, El falls into a coma, and Brenner doesn't dare bring another number to the lab. Instead, Brenner focuses the experiments on Eleven, who has repressed not only her memories of the past events but also her powers after waking up from her coma. Brenner knew that Eleven's abilities weren't lost but needed a "spark" to be restored. 1983 - Brenner believed that One was somewhere out there, "hiding in the darkness", and in 1983, after Eleven's powers were restored, Brenner would eventually use her abilities to find him. - In one experiment, El hears a strange sound that would get Brenner's attention. Despite El getting scared and the experiment being aborted, Brenner would repeat the experiment with the intention of making "contact". - On the night of november 6, 1983, El makes psychic contact with the Demogorgon in the Void, inadvertentely creating TUD, opening the mothergate and unleashing the monster. She eventually escaped the HNL that night. - On the next day, Brenner and the CIA receive a visit from agents that according to the S1E1 script were NSA. CIA and NSA agents would eventually work together to find Eleven and cover up anything that would compromise the secrecy of their clandestine operation. - Brenner and his team of agents along with MPs would go to the Hawkins Middle School in order to find Eleven after Hopper revealed her location. For their surprise, the Demogorgon appears in the school, distracting the agents and MPs, allowing the kids to run away from the CIA with Eleven. Brenner is brutally attacked by the Demogorgon, but survives the attack. - After the events in the school, we see hopper entering a black sedan with CIA agents. - CIA agents go to the Wheelers House searching for Eleven. This is the last time we see Brenner's men in the show. In the next season, the HNL would have a new director and a new staff. - In a clipping at Hawkins Police Station, there's information on the aftermath of the events in november, 1983, where we learn that Joyce Byers publicy alleged that Will was the subject of a secret government program. Joyce's allegation comes amidst the investigation into the past allegations of the lab's involvement with mind control experiments (MKUltra). - As to where Brenner and his entire staff were after the events in november, it is unknown, but i suspect Owens knew about what happened to them as in S2 he seems to be certain that Brenner's men were gone. The point is, mistakes have been made. Yes. Abundant mistakes, but, the men involved with those mistakes, the ones responsible for what happened to your brother and Miss Holland's death, they're gone. They're gone, and for better for worse, i'm the schmuck they brought in to make things better. — Sam OwensI've come to suspect that after the events of November '83, when the entire HNL staff was replaced, everything documented/recorded about the CIA's clandestine operations was securely locked away by CIA or DOE operatives, likely in the decommissioned Nevada Silo. (One alternate possibility is that those documents and recordings were stored in the Silo after the HNL was closed in december, 1984) Something that I find interesting is that both the Silo Lab and Owens' residence are located in Nevada, and in S4E5, when Eleven is taken to the Silo, originally the titles "Ruth, Nevada" appeared on the screen, that was later removed, but it implies that both the Silo and Owens' residence were close. This leads me to suspect that long before Owens and Brenner conceived of the NINA program, Owens already knew about the abandoned Silo in Nevada and decided to used it to store every TOP-SECRET documents/recordings of the CIA operations at HNL: https://preview.redd.it/xh9e7lxqye3b1.png?width=1334&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=eafda108e43adbb8ff115ac586a13add1f1e8442 One interesting detail is that the idea of the government securely locking away videotapes is something the Duffers planned for their original Montauk conception, which most of it was a prototype for what we've seen in Stranger Things. In The Montauk Experiment, the O.S.S. would securely lock away film cannisters with recordings of everything that happened in Camp Hero after the experiments ended in a blood-soaked event. Details in the document below: The logline for 'The Montauk Experiment' DOCTOR SAM OWENS' POSITION IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT - Sam Owens is a high-ranking member within U.S. Department of Energy as mentioned in the first official description of his character. Sometime between late 1983 and early 1984 he would be brought to HNL on a ‘clean-up’ assignment, tasked with containing the mess left by the CIA in 1983 and making things better. - As I previously mentioned, Owens may have been responsible for locking away all the documented CIA experimentation at HNL, and he also may have known the whereabouts of Brenner and other scientists and CIA operatives who worked with him all along. I would even assume that Owens and Brenner may have been in contact all this time. - During his time as director of the operations at HNL, Owens was involved in Will's treatment and in containing the spread of TUD. - In November 1984, during the Demodogs invasion, Owens met Eleven, who eventually closed the gate, ending TUD invasion. - A month later, the operations at HNL were officially shut down and the lab was closed after the release of the tape recording Owens' "confession", and Owens decided to help Eleven have a normal life under Hopper's care, giving him a forged birth certificate, and recommending Hopper to "let things cool off" for a year. This, of course, was done without the knowledge of the U.S. government. FACTONS WITHIN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT After the events os S2, in addition to the CIA Clandestine Ops and the DOE, other different agencies were introduced in the story: - US Army/Pentagon that briefly appears at the end of s3 (although we've seen the Military Police in the previous seasons which is a branch of the Army), and would be an antagonist faction in S4. - FBI agents who are presented as friends of Owens and allied to our main characters in S4. SULLIVAN'S FACTION - At some point after the HNL was closed, Doctor Owens, in addition to his high-ranking position in the DOE, also gained some position within the U.S. Army/Pentagon, probably tasked with monitoring and maintaining security in Hawkins after the lab was closed and the military presence left town. Lieutenant Colonel Jack Sullivan was involved in this, and it's possible he and Owens worked together. - An interesting detail is that the arm patch on Lt. Colonel Sullivan's uniform confirms that he's an United States Army Criminal Investigation Division operative, hence his associaton with the Pentagon. - At some point (i assume 1985), rumors about Eleven being alive and receiving help from someone within the U.S. government began to surface within the Pentagon, this would affect Owens' reputation. - It's also worth mentioning that in S4E6, Sullivan seems to imply that he knew or at least believed Brenner was alive. Explanation two, Dr. Brenner's special little pet has gone rogue again and he and his lackeys are now seeking to cover it up. Perhaps in the hopes of selling their pet to the Soviets. — Lt. Colonel SullivanThere's also this interview with Sherman Augustus where the interviewer asks him if Sullivan knows that Brenner is still alive, and Sherman's answer implies that Brenner being alive is something that wouldn't surprise Sullivan, Maybe because it was rumored within the Pentagon too. Basically, there's nothing that Sullivan doesn't know or expect about what's been happening in Hawkins and within the government since the events of S1. I'm pretty sure he knows that there's certain elements... because he says in the dialogue "there's rumors that she's getting help from someone on the inside". So there is nothing that he is not, you know, equating in that situation, he's not surprised. Whatever it is, you have to be a really strong and dynamic individual to be able to go in and try to kick E.T in the butt. — Sherman Augustus - In July 1985, Owens would find out about a foreign government invasion in Hawkins, and would go to Hawkins accompanied by Army/Pentagon forces to deal with the invasion, only to find an empty Soviet bunker. OWENS' FACTION - After the events in July, Owens got fired from his position in the miitary for failing his assignment to monitor security at Hawkins, i believe the previously mentioned rumors about him may also have played a role in his dismissal. - Owens, knowing that El had lost her powers, feared a further re-emergence of the TUD, which led him to begin developing ways to restore her abilities. - Owens would ally with Brenner to develop a way to restore Eleven's abilities, and Brenner convinced Owens that the only way to do so was via a process of re-experiencing her repressed memories in a program that they would later call NINA. It's unclear when Brenner and Owens' alliance started, but i personally believe they knew each other for longer than we initially thought, and shortly after the July events, Owens' looked for Brenner's help in order to develop a means to restore El's powers. - Despite being fired from his position in the military, Owens was still a DOE member and also had connections to the FBI (Ellen Stinson and other agents), and he used his power to clandestinely provide Brenner with the necessary resources to establish the NINA Project. For the program to be sanctioned, he had to compromise his principles, and risk his life and that of his family. Something worth noting is that in the episode 7 script, the dialogue where Owens expresses his disappointment with NINA's progress is a little different: I've given you all the resources you've asked for, i've given you your people, i've compromised my principles, i've risked my life, my family's life, all because you assured me this would work. That this was the only way. — Sam OwensBy "i've given you your people" we can confirm that Owens gave to Brenner his old HNL staff, who as we saw in S4E8, were loyal to him. And we can also confirm by Sam's words that he had to give Brenner resources, meaning, wherever Brenner was after the events oF S1, he was left with no resources and access to his old staff. - Owens and Brenner would establish NINA in the same abandoned Silo in Nevada where Owens presumably locked away all the video tapes and documents from HNL. THE FACTION CONFLICT - After Owens' dismissal, Sullivan apparently became the responsible for monitoring Hawkins and maintaining the security in the town. - In March 1986, a supernatural murder in Hawkins comes to Sullivan's attention, and after an autopsy is performed by Army medical doctors, Sullivan concludes that the murder was done remotely, which tied in with the rumors about Eleven being alive and getting help from someone within the U.S. government who he, and probably other operatives within the Pentagon believed was Sam Owens. - Upon that conclusion, Sullivan would begin a clandestine military operation in order to investigate Eleven's whereabouts, and this leads him to Owens. - Something worth noting is that when we are first introduced to Sullivan, he arrives in Indiana in an U.S. Army helicopter to investigate the circumstances of an unusual murder, but when he begins his operation to hunt down Eleven, he goes to Ruth, Nevada in an unmarked black helicopter, alluding to the fact that this is a clandestine military operation: Sullivan arrives in Indiana Sullivan leaves Owens' residence in Ruth, Nevada Something interesting about the scene where Sullivan visits Owens that adds some information on what the U.S. government has been up to is the dialogue between Sullivan and Owens from this audition tape which is a bit different from the dialogue in the show, There were no signs of an attacker. No bruises, no signs of any struggle. It's as if her attacker was a ghost. — Lt. Colonel SullivanOwens' question implies that Sullivan has been helping him at some point, probably in monitoring Hawkins like a mentioned before, which would explain how he knew so much about what has happened there all this years. And Sullivan's response implies that after Owens got fired, it became his responsability to maintain security in Hawkins, which is why he was there, asking Owens Eleven's whereabouts. - Owens refuses to tell Sullivan Eleven's whereabouts, and Jack decides to do things "the hard way", taking multiple items from Owens' house in order to investigate everything Sam has done and everyone he has spoken to in 1985 and luckily, be able to find where Eleven is. - Owens knew that the former Indigo test subject One was back, and via a DOE intranet, he requests the immediate acceleration of NINA. He makes it clear that their secret program and facility were compromised and that the Pentagon was involved. And for the security of their program, Owens implements a communication lockdown. - Owens uses his FBI connections to have agents help him find Eleven, maintain the secrecy of the operation and protect people closely associated with Eleven who could be found by Sullivan. Some of those agents are Ellen Stinson, who seems to be Owens' right hand, Agent Harmon, and Agent Wallace. - In the meantime, Sullivan/the Pentagon was able to find out that Owens moved Eleven to Lenora Hills, CA, and would eventually send a group of agents/soldiers to find her. - After finding Eleven with a group of agents and convicing her to go with him in order to get her powers back, Owens takes El to the Silo Lab while Agents Harmon and Wallace would stay with Mike, Jonathan and Will to protect them, and Agent Stinson would be closely monitoring Hawkins with 2 more agents. - Sullivan, after a shootout in the Byers' house takes Agent Wallace to a black site to torture him in order to find out where Eleven was, and after a long time of torture, Wallace gave away Eleven's location. - After NINA succeeded in restoring Eleven's abilities, Owens, believing she was ready, would call Stinson to have her prepare the transit from Nevada to Hawkins, Indiana through her connections at Nellis. - Brenner would eventually betray Owens and considered killing him in order to stop Eleven from leaving the Silo Lab. After the conflict between Owens and Brenner, the Pentagon finally arrives at the location revealed by Agent Wallace and a conflict between the U.S army and the MP soldiers resulted in the death of Brenner, his men and all the scientists in the Silo Lab, except Owens. - Eleven escapes the Pentagon with her friends, and we see Sullivan and some of his soldiers for the last time in S4, in the Nevada desert. Episodes 8 and 9 made it clear that El still needs to hide and Sullivan's faction is still after her. It's worth mentioning that Sullivan was the only villain in ST4 not to be killed or at least injured, so it's almost certain that this guy will be back in ST5 to kick E.T's ass. Specially know that a full-scale TUD invasion is about the happen in Hawkins. POSSIBILITIES FOR S5: Sullivan investigates the video tapes in the silo lab S4 ended without us knowing what happened to Owens and Sullivan after eleven escaped, but we do know that both characters are in the Silo Lab and that Sullivan now has access to a vast amount of video tapes that he would certainly investigate and this would create several different possibilities for the Pentagon's role in S5. Sullivan's Mission in Hawkins Sullivan is still responsible for monitoring Hawkins, and he will likely learn about what is happening in the town (which is also where El is hiding now), possibly through the military presence in Hawkins that we saw in the ST4 epilogue. Something that caught my attention was the presence of a Research Lab vehicle on the set of down town hawkins, this vehicle never appeared in the show, and it was not mentioned in the script of episode 9. But it makes me think that at the end of S4, the Military is not just trying to help Hawkins citizen after this "federal disaster", but also researching into TUD, which perhaps is an operation led by Sullivan? let me know what you guys think. S1 parallels If we have Sullivan in Hawkins in S5, we most certainly will get more Government vs Eleven scenes, which would parallel Brenner and the CIA in S1. I particularly believe that S5 will have many parallels with what the Duffers planned for the first season of Montauk: ACT THREE (episodes 7-8) will climax with characters working together to outsmart the military, venture into this alternate dimension, save Will, and, hopefully, close this "tear" once and for all. Doctor Owens in 1959 flashbacks Something I found extremely suspicious is that in S4, Owens seemed to know more than we initially thought... He's claimed three victims so far, and when i saw the eyes, i knew... i knew that was him. He was him. He was sending us a message, letting us know he's back.This sentence from Owens confirms that he somehow knew Henry's killing manner. It's plausible to assume that Owens learned about Henry and the other Indigo Numbers after being brought to the lab to "make things better". But I personally believe that there must be a greater reason why he was brought to HNL after S1, I believe Owens was already aware of the clandestine operations that had been happening in the HNL for years (at least some of it) and had known Dr. Brenner since the 1950's. I would even consider the possibility that Owens has been involved in clandestine government operations in the past and that somehow led him to find out about the HNL and Brenner's program. In this interview by The Wrap, Ross Duffer's words about Brenner and Owens' alliance caught my attention because the way he puts it felt like Owens has known Brenner for much longer than we think. Once that first kill with Chrissy happens, then their fears are realized and that’s what jump starts their whole storyline. I mean, that is why Owens is collaborating with Brenner, a man he also does not like. He respects him, but despises the man, because he also knows he’s the key to stopping One, to stopping Vecna. — Ross DufferBy my suspicion, i came up with the theory/fanfic that Owens could have worked with Brenner in the 50's and was aware of what happened in the Creel House in '59. Maybe he even met young Henry and interacted with him after he woke up from his coma. If there's any chance that i'm right about it, i would imagine the Owens and Henry interactions would parallel the scenes with Owens and Will in S2. Stinson becomes the new Owens / Her alliance with the adults Agent Stinson was apparently Owens' right hand in S4 and also the leader among the agents of Owens' faction, being involved in the operations in Nevada, Hawkins and even being responsible for driving Hopper and Joyce to Hawkins. Imo, Stinson has the potential to become the "new Owens"/Main government operative to help our main characters while Owens is MIA. She could also send some agents to investigate what happened to Owens. I have a personal theory that Stinson will join the adults in S5 and help them on a mission to outsmart the military. And i think the "knowing nod" between Hop and Stinson in S4E9 might be a hint of a possible team up for S5. |
2023.06.02 02:34 pluto_bandit AUTO REVOLUTION ON SOUTH BLVD
2023.06.02 02:30 InfamousEfficiency46 Did I get cheated by the mechanic?
2023.06.02 02:19 hackzubbard 2024 Post-Spring/Pre-Summer Recruiting Overview
Name | H.S. | Rank | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Commits | |||
1. 5* Julian Sayin | Carlsbad in Carlsbad, CA (SoCal) | 247: #11 , On3: #14, Comp2: #12 | One of the most "ready" prospects in the 2024 class, Julian is very skilled at every facet of QB play - might not be the highest ceiling from an NFL perspective but very likely the highest floor. Julian commited to Alabama somewhat out of the blue but has been locked in since and the Tide's primary leader on offense in this class. This is your QB of the Future. |
Name | H.S. | Rank | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Top Targets | |||
1. 4* Kevin Riley | Tuscaloosa County in Northport, AL (Tuscaloosa area) | 247: #97, On3: #102, Comp2: #99 | A homegrown talent, Riley does it all, running with great balance, breaks contact and gets going in a hurry. Top 3 of Bama, Auburn, UGA - this should end up being an Iron Bowl battle that Alabama wins, though it does appear Riley might take his time. If Alabama pushes hard, he could be a summer commit. |
2. 4* Daniel Hill | Meridian in Meridian, MS (E MS) | 247: #196, On3: #194, Comp2: #195 | One of the more unique RB prospects, Daniel Hill is a big bodied guy but plays a ton of receiver as well - not a comparison but could have a Najee Harris-esque roll. Alabama is battling South Carolina here, with the Cocks having some buzz after an early Bama lean. Bama is not done here but might need to press harder. |
3. 4* Nate Frazier | Mater Dei in Santa Ana, CA (SoCal) | 247: #76, On3: #74, Comp2: #75 | One of the nation's top RB prospects with some of the best long speed, Nate Frazier will push for #1 back status in 2024. Frazier is pretty wide open currently, being highly desired by both the local west coast school and the SEC powerhouses. I'd have trouble projecting him anywhere yet but it would be really cool if it was Alabama. |
Name | H.S. | Rank | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Commits | |||
1. 5* Perry Thompson | Foley in Foley, AL (Mobile area) | 247: #27, On3: #29, Comp2: #28 | A taller receiver, Perry thrives with straight-line speed and a suprising ability to weave through space - Thompson earned his offer last season in camp routing up 2023 5* DBs. As a high-ranking prospect, Perry is somewhat keeping his options open and will likely take visits but has repeatedly reaffirmed his commit - Alabama's steady pursuit should allow them to hold on. |
2. 4* Rico Scott | Bishop McDevitt in Harrisburg, PA (Cent PA) | 247: #372, On3: #289, Comp2: #330 | A real smooth operator - plays RB and WR and is at his best going up the field. A bit of a suprise to some, Bama had seen him previously in camp and then watched his fall progress and saw what they needed to pull the trigger. I think we'll finish in the top 150-170 |
Top Targets | |||
1. 4* Amari Jefferson | Baylor School in Chattanooga, TN | 247: #270, On3: #288, Comp2: #279 | My favorite realistic WR addition - his vertical and lateral speed POP off the screen, looks like a top 75 guy. Currently a Tennessee baseball commit, football is his likely future, as Alabama and Georgia battle it out. This will be a tough battle but one I very much hope the Tide wins. |
2. 4* Aeryn Hampton | Carthage in Carthage, TX (E TX) | 247: #116, On3: #126, Comp2: #121 | More fast than quick, Aeryn runs like a RB, weaving through traffic and hitting the jets. Aeryn has been up-front about his love for Alabama and has narrowed his list to Bama and Texas, his former commitment. Aeryn has the green light to commit but seems like a guy who could go back and forth so unclear where this ends up. |
3. 4* Cam Coleman | Central in Phenix City, AL (E AL) | 247: #54, On3: #25, Comp2: #38 | This guy's the real deal - big bodied but with slot speed and one of the best high-pointers in the class. Alabama's been trying to get him on campus and he's been uninterested, so the communication has been laid back. Cam and Perry Thompson kinda fill the same role so it's not a huge concern but Auburn is leading here and would give Hugh Freeze a real weapon. |
Name | H.S. | Rank | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Top Targets | |||
1. 4* Caleb Odom | Carrollton in Carrollton, GA (W GA) | 247: #85, On3: #69, Comp2: #77 | A true mismatch nightmare, Odom is a true receiving threat TE, big bodied with room to grow but a little slender currently. Caleb is kinda wide open at the moment but this feels like one where Bama should start to push, with UGA snagging two of their targets in Jaden Reddell and Colton Heinrich |
Name | H.S. | Rank | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Top Targets | |||
1. 4* OT Daniel Calhoun | Walton in Marietta, GA (Atlanta Metro) | 247: #86, On3: #106, Comp2: #96 | A mammoth of a prospect, Calhoun has the look of a SEC lineman, able to play on the left or right side of the offensive line. Top 3 of Bama, UGA, and Texas but suprise suprise, this looks like another Bama/UGA battle. Feel better about Bama in this one but it's close and OVs will be big. |
2. 4* IOL Casey Poe | Lindale in Lindale, TX (E TX) | 247: #142, On3: #134, Comp2: #138 | One of the most coveted interior prospects, Poe boasts both a mean streak as well as the ability to move the center, making him about as A1 as you can get for an interior OL prospect. Top 3 currently would be Alabama, Oklahoma, and UGA. Will be a tough battle but Alabama is the perceived leader heading into visits. Bama REALLY wants him. |
3. 4* OL Jordan Seaton | IMG Academy in Bradenton, FL (Originally from Washington DC) | 247: #41, On3: #42, Comp2: #41 | Big, athletic frame who could end up playing inside or out - Seaton prefers OT but somecurrently leaning towards IOL. Ohio State was and is very involved but Bama/UGA feel like the primary players since making the move to IMG. I believe he visited for the A-Day game and it certainly seems like Bama will be an option until the end here. |
4. 4* OT Marques Easley | Kankakee in Kankakee, IL (NE IL) | 247: #263, On3: #240, Comp2: #251 | A longer and leaner tackle prospect, Bama and UGA are again involved with Tennessee being the 3rd team in the mix, as well as the possible leader. Despite the Vols' early lead, this one can really go any direction after visits. |
5. 4* OT Weston Davis | Beaumont United in Beaumont, TX (SE TX) | 247: #180, On3: #124, Comp2: #152 | A basketball-first prospect with high-upside as an OT, Davis has some interest in Bama but local programs like Texas A&M are getting some good recent buzz. Think it'll be paramount for Weston to camp. |
Name | H.S. | Rank | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Commits | |||
1. 4* DE Jeremiah Beamon | Parker in Birmingham, AL | 247: #103, On3: #98, Comp2: #100 | Alabama's most recent commitment, Jeremiah is a FORCE rushing the passer, a little undersized with plenty of room to grow before a potential reneissance. If that sounds like Quinnen Williams, it's because that's the comp he's been getting. Many thought he'd be a sooner or later kinda commit and he went ahead and stopped messing around. |
Top Targets | |||
1. 5* DE Eddrick Houston | Buford in Buford, GA (Atlanta Metro) | 247: #15, On3: #15, Comp2: #15 | High upside, athleticism, and flexibility - bit of a tweener for the Saban defense who could slim down to an Anfernee Jennings role and add some weight to try and emulate Jonathan Allen. Another prospect that I think comes down to Bama and UGA, I feel better about Bama's chances here than with Eddrick's Buford teammate, KJ Bolden. |
2. 4* DT Terrance Hibler | Holmes County Central in Lexington, MS (Cent MS) | 247: #281, On3: #368, Comp2: #324 | A bit undersized, Terrance makes up for it with violence, punch, and pure 'want-to'. Alabama has made a great early impression, alongside local Miss State, and the Tide are in a great spot if they choose to push here. |
3. 3* DE Utah Commit Isaia Faga | Central in Phenix City, AL (E AL) | 247: #733, On3: #676, Comp2: #704 | Alabama has seen some recent success with Pacific Island players but it's rare to have one so local. Isaia excels at getting through traffic and getting into the backfield. Isaia's uncle is the Utah DL coach, leading to the early commitment, but Alabama is interested in seeing him camp and who knows where it could go from there. |
Name | H.S. | Rank | Notes |
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Commits | |||
1. 4* Cayden Jones | Christ School in Arden, NC (W NC) | 247: #147, On3: #171, Comp2: #159 | Alabama has been looking more and more at hybrid LB types who could end up on the EDGE or off-ball (Jihaad Campell, Qua Russaw) - Cayden Jones is another, playing a ton off-ball and walking down to the edge and will likely project into a Terrell Lewis/Dallas Turner - type role. Since last year, Cayden had been up-front about wanting the green light to commit and jumped on it when he got the chance. |
Top Targets | |||
1. 5* Dylan Stewart | Friendship Collegiate Academy in Washington DC | 247: #10, On3: #9, Comp2: #9 | Maybe the top pure Edge guy, Dylan reminds me of Keon Keeley from last cycle; similar build, bend and length. Visits to Alabama, Ohio State, Miami, South Carolina and UGA have put all 5 in contention, similar to Keeley. I'd give the Gamecocks and Hurricanes the edge going into the summer but Alabama is RIGHT there and another visit to campus could flip the script. |
2. 4* Jordan Ross | Vestavia Hills in Birmingham, AL | 247: #38, On3: #33, Comp2: #35 | A high-end Edge, Jordan flashes natural talent that can only grow with development. A little undersized, Alabama has told him to gain weight and camp prior to a serious pursuit, giving UGA and Tennessee an early lead. This could change quickly this summer, as Jordan finds his way onto campus. |
3. 5* Colin Simmons | Duncanville in Duncanville, TX (DFW Metro) | 247: #4, On3: #3, Comp2: #3 | One of the Nation's top athletes, Simmons effortlessly flies around off the edge. LSU and Texas are battling it out thus far but Alabama will continue to work here. |
Name | H.S. | Rank | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Commits | |||
1. 4* Sterling Dixon | Mobile Christian School in Mobile, AL | 247: #188, On3: #164, Comp2: #176 | Similar to Cayden Jones, Sterling is another hybrid type - beginning as an edge type with some off-ball experience, Sterling will transition to ILB this offseason for Mobile Christian and then at Alabama. A long-time commit, Sterling will take some visits but there's not a huge concern there. |
Top Targets | |||
1. 5* UGA Commit Demarcus Riddick | Chilton County in Clanton, AL (Cent AL) | 247: #25, On3: #38, Comp2: #31 | Demarcus is an excellent example of a modern LB and exactly what Alabama wants from the position: excellent weaving through traffic, sideline-to-sideline movement and can shade down to rush the passer. An early UGA commit, the strength of that commitment has wavered significantly and while there's still some work to do, the feeling is he could very likely flip to Alabama over the summer. |
2. 5* Justin Williams | Oak Ridge in Conroe, TX (Houston area) | 247: #13, On3: #12, Comp2: #12 | Similarly archetypal LB prospect: a bit slight at the moment, he makes up for it with WR-level speed and burst, making him a real weapon against a high-powered offense. Oregon, Alabama, and UGA are the likely top 3 - Bama made a good impression this spring but needs to get him back on campus ASAP - feels like UGA could swoop in here if Riddick flips. |
3. 4* Bradley Shaw | Hoover in Hoover, AL (Birmingham area) | 247: #176, On3: #139, Comp2: #157 | More of a traditional ILB, football IQ and sure tackling give him a Shaun Dion Hamilton feel. Alabama, Auburn, and UGA are the top 3 schools and this feels like Iron Bowl battle, where Alabama will win or lose based on how they push to reel him in. |
Name | H.S. | Rank | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Commits | |||
1. 5* CB Jaylen Mbakwe | Clay-Chalkville in Pinson, AL (Birmingham area) | 247: #19, On3: #17, Comp2: #18 | A legitimate two-way player, Mbakwe, like Kool-Aid before him, could have been a 5* WR as well as DB but prefers defense. Jaylen is the defensive leader of the class and will be pretty instrumental in how the defensive class comes together. |
Top Targets | |||
1. 5* CB Charles Lester III | Riverview in Sarasota, FL (Cent FL) | 247: #16, On3: #19, Comp2: #17 | An all-around athlete with the ability to play multiple DB positions, CL3 could be commited or off the board at any moment. There's a clear interest in Alabama on his end but the Tide have yet to really push, leaving the door wide open for FSU. He OVs on June 3rd so it's likely that we'll have a better idea of where Bama goes after that. |
2. 4* CB Jameer Grimsley | Tampa Catholic in Tampa, FL | 247: #230, On3: #195, Comp2: #212 | Somewhat of the prototypical Saban corner, with a long and lean build and a wingspan for days. Jameer has seen his recruitment skyrocket this spring and schools like Bama, FSU, and Penn State are pushing. Bama's got a great shot for this prospect who should continue to rise. |
3. 4* S UGA Commit Peyton Woodward | St. John Bosco in Bellflower, CA (SoCal) | 247: #69, On3: #70, Comp2: #69 | Peyton shows good play speed and flows to the target in run defense; a good balanced safety. Peyton has not been shy about letting other programs try to flip him from the Dawgs and his family is full of Alabama fans, making the Tide a very possible flip option. |
4. 4* CB Zabien Brown | Mater Dei in Santa Ana, CA (SoCal) | 247: #57, On3: #56 , Comp2: #56 | Zabien is a physical pass defender who excels at getting in passing lanes and making plays on the ball - not a specimen but a true competitor. As a Mater Dei kid, the axiom has been USC most often has first right of refusal so we'll see how the summer visits go and if Bama can/will make a push here. |
5. 5* S KJ Bolden | Buford in Buford, GA (Atlanta Metro) | 247: #8, On3: #5, Comp2: #6 | Likely the top DB in the 2024 class, KJ is how they come; a true 5* safety. UGA has a healthy lead thus far but Bama (alongside others) will have a chance to fight back during summer OVs |
6. 5* CB UGA Commit Ellis Robinson IV | IMG Academy in Bradenton, FL (Originally from CT) | 247: #5, On3: #7, Comp2: #6 | One of the stickiest DBs in the class, Ellis was the other 5* CB alongside Alabama freshman Desmond Ricks at IMG in 2023. Alabama led early but UGA got the momentum and the commitment. It's likely Ellis will take visits, including a potential OV to Alabama, but I would not predict a flip to Alabama at this time or in the future. |
2023.06.02 01:34 sp90378 330W GaN charger, OEM, anyone got one yet?
2023.06.02 00:54 ThrowRA01102023 36 miles with ice cream lol…enjoy your ice cream soup
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2023.06.02 00:45 prideofcucamonga69 Momentum 3 Issues
2023.06.02 00:44 jasoning21 19M - Home for the summer, wanna chill and go on adventures (Richmond Hill but also TO in general)
2023.06.02 00:42 Frequency_of_Fun Why the ammo changes are fine, sorry you are just bad
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2023.06.02 00:09 autorepairandtint Auto Repair Auto Repair Shop Auto Repair Service Auto Service Tire Shop Used Tire Shop New Tire Shop Contact Us. (702) 843-0707 https://autorepairandtint.com/ https://g.page/r/CYQ7RRujXjSHEAE
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2023.06.01 23:56 StirredEggs De grote trebuchet/gokken/eksters/ronde tafel/500 euro/hout/10k COMPILATIE
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2023.06.01 23:47 DemeMonster The Monster Den PVE5xQuadKitsLoot+RaidableBasesPurge
2023.06.01 23:45 SecurityInTheWin Discount tires found out I had stripped studs and only 3 lugs referred me to 2 auto repair shops
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